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OHlandlord

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Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #16 
An eviction attorney here (a good one who is experienced) charges $350.    Since only an attorney or the owner of record can file the case, unless the owner is local and wishes to file his case personally, the attorney is required.  No PM can file an eviction in Ohio.  A copy of the deed is required at filing to prove ownership.  The court filing fee is $140 and the set out fee is $270.  So yes, it does cost $760 for an eviction.  Now, I can get part of that set out fee back from the court if our maintenance does the set out with just the deputy present, but its still close to $700.  There is no markup of any kind and the owner pays these fees directly to the attorney or court.

My vacancy rate at present is at 10%.  Last month it was at 8.5%.  We have picked up a few new properties that are curently being renovated and are waiting for marketing. 

20 evictions for those properties would cost those owners $50,000.  Smart owners are more than willing to wait another 2 weeks to find a good tenant than to place a marginal one.  LOL  No one every said the property would be vacant a year!!!  Like how you twist statistics.  Yes, each owner may lose $350 in rent, but they don't have to worry about evictions.  And I would happily give that guarantee since I have NEVER had to do an eviction within the 1st 3 months!  Don't know of any LLs who have except those that do no screening at all.  Since it almost never happens, it isn't much of a guarantee, is it?

I have actually only ever had a few people tell me they had no acess to the internet (both older people).  In 2008 The Nielson Company did a survey that showed that only 22% of American households didn't have an internet acess in their homes, and showed that this access was increasing yearly.  In this study, it showed only the poor and elderly had levels that low.  Do you have mostly low income applicants?

Asking an owner to lower the rent indicates that the PM doesn't know the market???  Where did you get that notion?  So if an unrealistic owner requests a rent of $1 million, we shouldn't ask him to lower it?  It actually shows that the PM, in fact, DOES know the market.  The PM knows what market rent the area and property will sustain.  There are unrealistic owners out there who believe their property is worth much more than what it is (both in sales and rentals).  Those owners set prices too high and a property will not sell/rent because of it.  It is the PM's job to politely explain what the market will sustain and guide the owner to the correct level.

I really don't know what you want me to defend.  I am making no outlandish claims, promising nothing that is extraordinary.  Just terriffic results where tenants and owners are very satisfied.  I've got repeat business of owners turning over their newly purchased properties to me and former tenants returning to find new places to rent, along with referring their friends, family, and co-workers.  Metropolitan Housing and local employers hand out my name and number because of my reputation as a PM.  I do not claim to know the "Reality of US Property Management" through polling a tiny portion of companies in one city and jumping to conclusions.  So I have nothing to defend.
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #17 
I am twisting statistics, you just said your at 10% vacancy per month, that would be for the entire year, would it not? And yes I admit, I was way off on the dollars, but I didn't realize you were renting at the bottom of the barrel. 

I don't rent to low income families, my average rent on 3 bedrooms is currently $750 per month, your getting $350, so who would be renting to low income families? My 2 bedroom apartments rent for nothing less than $550, since I don't manage any 1 bedroom units (as of yet), I would not consider anything less than $425 for those. So across the board my rents are significantly higher than yours. And I will share with you some "non-industry standard" requirements, all open market applicants MUST prove 2.5 times the rent to even get out of Stage 1 in my application process. 

Maybe your smart owners are fine with mediocre rent amounts, needless to say, absolutely no chance at cash flow by the way. One drain cleaning call, coupled with insurance, PM fees and taxes, equals in the RED!  My owners, like actually making money on their investments, pretty sure that's the idea. What market are you in that you can only bring $350 per month, regardless of what type of unit it is? I have never heard any rents being that low, hell even in detroit they are getting close to $900 per month on 3 beds, and that city is torn to pieces. 

Who said I don't screen tenants, my tenant screenings cost $35 per adult, and yes I run on all adults. I currently reject 7 of 10 applicants, as I have a total of 9 levels each applicant must get thru (yes, even if they are married, each adult must pass all 9 levels) I do not accept the majority passed! It's actually made up of 5 sections, however sections 1 and 2 have 3 requirements each. Another sure fire bet that's not followed by the "industry standard". 

Well needless to say that if an owner is foolish enough to request $1 Million in rent, but obviously I was not talking about that. I am referring to PM's telling an owner, "you can get $800 per month on this home, only to find out, 6 months later when the property is still VACANT, that the market would never support more than $750. That's a PM, who has no clue what the market will bear, and I am not talking over all market, as there are some neighborhood's that will not support even the true market rent, that's market analysis.

So it's obvious you are not in a major market, to claim only 2 people have told you they don't have internet access consistently, that is impossible in a major market. This is even more absurd if you are managing over 150 properties.

Still waiting on the data confirmation on the US Census Report? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
An eviction attorney here (a good one who is experienced) charges $350.    Since only an attorney or the owner of record can file the case, unless the owner is local and wishes to file his case personally, the attorney is required.  No PM can file an eviction in Ohio.  A copy of the deed is required at filing to prove ownership.  The court filing fee is $140 and the set out fee is $270.  So yes, it does cost $760 for an eviction.  Now, I can get part of that set out fee back from the court if our maintenance does the set out with just the deputy present, but its still close to $700.  There is no markup of any kind and the owner pays these fees directly to the attorney or court.

My vacancy rate at present is at 10%.  Last month it was at 8.5%.  We have picked up a few new properties that are curently being renovated and are waiting for marketing. 

20 evictions for those properties would cost those owners $50,000.  Smart owners are more than willing to wait another 2 weeks to find a good tenant than to place a marginal one.  LOL  No one every said the property would be vacant a year!!!  Like how you twist statistics.  Yes, each owner may lose $350 in rent, but they don't have to worry about evictions.  And I would happily give that guarantee since I have NEVER had to do an eviction within the 1st 3 months!  Don't know of too many LLs who have except those that do no screening at all.

I have actually only ever had 2 people tell me they had no acess to the internet (both older people).  In 2008 The Nielson Company did a survey that showed that only 22% of Americans didn't have internet acess in their homes, and showed that this access was increasing yearly.  In this study, it showed only the poor and elderly had levels that low.  Do you have mostly low income applicants?

Asking an owner to lower the rent indicates that the PM doesn't know the market???  Where did you get that notion?  So if an unrealistic owner requests a rent of $1 million, we shouldn't ask him to lower it?  It actually shows that the PM, in fact, DOES know the market.  The PM knows what market rent the area and property will sustain.  There are unrealistic owners out there who believe their property is worth much more than what it is (both in sales and rentals).  Those owners set prices too high and a property will not sell/rent because of it.  It is the PM's job to politely explain what the market will sustain and guide the owner to the correct level.

I really don't know what you want me to defend.  I am making no outlandish claims, promising nothing that is extraordinary.  Just terriffic results where tenants and owners are very satisfied.  I've got repeat business of owners turning over their newly purchased properties to me and former tenants returning to find new places to rent, along with referring their friends, family, and co-workers.  Metropolitan Housing and local employers hand out my name and number because of my reputation as a PM.  I do not claim to know the "Reality Of US Property Management" through polling a tiny portion of companies in one city and jumping to conclusions.  So I have nothing to defend.

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

Registered:
Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #18 
I can see why your statistics don't add up.  You're so good at math.  $350, for a 2 WEEK PERIOD, would be $700 a month.  Which is the average price for a 2-3 bedroom APARTMENT in the midwest.  Houses would normally be more.  Yes, the lowest end I have is a one bedroom EFFICIENCY unit in a multi-unit building.  The whole building takes in good money.  The highest end is a lovely house with acreage (outside town, of course) that rents for $5070 to a government employee (who, coincidentally, transferred in from Kansas).  Rest assured if my owners are not making money, its not from failing to collect rent or overcharging for repairs.

Everyone here seems to have access to the internet.  Every phone and cable company offers it.  Most bundle it with their other services.  You can get it with your dish.  Most applicants have it at home, office, or on their phones.   Only a few clients don't have internet.  Lower end applicants have access at a friend or relative's, or at the public library.  Your library does offer internet, right?  Then your applicants do have access, they just chose not to use it.  You have to be pretty far out of town not to have access.  Maybe my applicants are just higher end.  Even just sitting here, I have access to 4 internet accounts.

As for screening, I only accept 3 x the rent in income.  2.5 times isn't enough unless you are including the utilities.  That's 40% of their income for just the rent.  (You are right about not being the Industry Standard!  The Industry Standard is to use 30-35% of the rent for income, not 40%.)  All it would take is one car repair to put that tenant in the red, and then you wouldn't get your rent.  And screening is only as good as the service you use.  I double check every applicants screening myself.  I don't trust those screening companies to do the job well enough, just like you don't trust the government.  I go far beyond what those companies do.

I understand all about Market Analysis.  You surely know that Market Rent varies by the area, not the entire city.  It also varies by the property itself.  Just because the property is situated in a good neighborhood, if the property isn't up to the standards of those other properties in that area, the rent would have to be lower.  Any PM worth his salary would know that.  If one is dumb enough to tell an owner a rent that the market wouldn't support, and then leave the property vacant for 6 months!  Well, nicely said, he must be an idiot.
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #19 
Apparently, i am a little better than you. You stated 20 properties vacant totaled 50K lost revenue, not even close, as my original numbers of $168K per year in loss revenue was dead on. If you calculate 20 properties x $700 per month (average) that's 14K a month, multiply that x 12 = 168K. 

If you would actually read my comments, I clearly stated over 60% of tenants do not have CONSISTENT access to the internet, this does not mean NONE! In other words, they do not have in their homes, as you and i do. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
I can see why your statistics don't add up.  You're so good at math.  $350, for a 2 WEEK PERIOD, would be $700 a month.  Which is the average price for a 2-3 bedroom APARTMENT in the midwest.  Houses would normally be more.  Yes, the lowest end I have is a one bedroom EFFICIENCY unit in a multi-unit building.  The whole building takes in good money.  The highest end is a lovely house with acreage (outside town, of course) that rents for $5070 to a government employee (who, coincidentally, transferred in from Kansas).  Rest assured if my owners are not making money, its not from failing to collect rent or overcharging for repairs.

Everyone here seems to have access to the internet.  Every phone and cable company offers it.  Most bundle it with their other services.  You can get it with your dish.  Most applicants have it at home, office, or on their phones.   Only a few clients don't have internet.  Lower end applicants have access at a friend or relative's, or at the public library.  Your library does offer internet, right?  Then your applicants do have access, they just chose not to use it.  You have to be pretty far out of town not to have access.  Maybe my applicants are just higher end.  Even just sitting here, I have access to 4 internet accounts.

As for screening, I only accept 3 x the rent in income.  2.5 times isn't enough unless you are including the utilities.  That's 40% of their income for just the rent.  (You are right about not being the Industry Standard!  The Industry Standard is to use 30-35% of the rent for income, not 40%.)  All it would take is one car repair to put that tenant in the red, and then you wouldn't get your rent.  And screening is only as good as the service you use.  I double check every applicants screening myself.  I don't trust those screening companies to do the job well enough, just like you don't trust the government.  I go far beyond what those companies do.

I understand all about Market Analysis.  You surely know that Market Rent varies by the area, not the entire city.  It also varies by the property itself.  Just because the property is situated in a good neighborhood, if the property isn't up to the standards of those other properties in that area, the rent would have to be lower.  Any PM worth his salary would know that.  If one is dumb enough to tell an owner a rent that the market wouldn't support, and then leave the property vacant for 6 months!  Well, nicely said, he must be an idiot.

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

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Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #20 
And if you read mine, you would see I said I had 10% THIS MONTH.  YOU said this year, not me.  I even told you that last month it was 8.5%.  But like all statistics, you twisted it into a year!  And that is the same statistic you made up for $168k per year.  Another number you twisted to suit your own advertising.  It isn't working.  Hard to believe when you make up statistics and jump to conclusions after tiny polls.

Consistant access?  What, they have access today but failed to pay their bill next month, so they don't have it?  (Hmm, should he pay the rent or the internet?)  They either have access or they don't.  EVERYONE HAS CONSISTANT ACCESS WHEN THE PUBLIC LIBRARY PROVIDES IT FREE OF CHARGE 7 DAYS A WEEK.  Whether they wish to avail themselves of this access or not is their decision.  Everyone can get a free library card and can have access.  What difference does it make if they look for rentals in their home, their friends or relative's home, their workplace, or the public library???
Marytmary1978

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Posts: 445
Reply with quote  #21 

I and another landlord had a discussion a couple of years ago.  Seems that you get better applicants from on line adds as apposed to newspaper.  I do not put any adds in the newspaper any more. 

 

We keep our units nice, the rent at the lower end of market rate, and run well below 5% vacancy rate ---most of that is getting the place prep-ed and ready for the new tenant.  Generally have more applicants than I need.

GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #22 
Since it's painfully obvious for you, that you are not going to grasp the concept of "polling", even though it has been done this way for decades. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make him it drink it. 

Okay so instead of 10% it's 8.5%, the fact still remains that you are still costing your clients over 6 figures a year in rent. You see that is referred to as an "average", the point is you have vacancy every month, once you get to 12, that is a year. If you add up your vacancies for an entire calendar year, and then divide that by 12, you have arrived at the average. 

As you have done consistently throughout your failed attempts to defend anything your tired system provides, you once again don't understand the logic behind what consistent means. As you only know how to attack someone or think negatively towards tenants, maybe they are doing the responsible thing and not taking on extra bills they cannot afford, did that ever cross your negative mind, of course not. I see this all the time with PM's, you believe that tenants are at a much lower lever than you, and you treat them that way. You assume because they can't afford internet service, then they must be terrible tenants who do not pay their rents, tear up properties and do endless amounts of drugs. How completely ignorant of you, but after all it is the "industry standard". If you actually take the time to "poll' your tenants, you would start to learn something. I doubt that you will, as you do not understand polling so you would not have a clue on how to develop one. 

I have not problem in standing behind my system, cause throughout your best efforts to disprove it, you have actually confirmed a lot of what I have been saying. Your defending double digit vacancy, with some nonsense that it makes more sense to have vacancy than an eviction. You even tried to back it up with dollars, only to have that blown up in your face. So now your retracting on that, and trying say it's me manufacturing statistics, when they are YOUR statistics, and you just can't grasp how averages work. I would venture a guess your not an investor, cause no intelligent investor would ever agree that vacancy is the answer. I will say this, of all the PM's in KC, I have NEVER had one tell me that "vacancy" is so much better than having an eviction, so congratulations you have that one all to yourself. Do you tell your clients that this is your belief? 

The bottom line is this, you operate like most PM's operate in this country, with this 
joke that is "industry standard". It's kind of ironic, there is no "standard" in rental markets from one city to another. A PM has to know his/her market, down to the very specifics of that market, demographics, financials, school systems, transportation routes and so much more. You agree with that as being correct, however you then say there is this "industry standard", well how can there be a standard practiced by most in the industry, if a true property manager will actually take the time to learn their specific market, and manage accordingly? 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
And if you read mine, you would see I said I had 10% THIS MONTH.  YOU said this year, not me.  I even told you that last month it was 8.5%.  But like all statistics, you twisted it into a year!  And that is the same statistic you made up for $168k per year.  Another number you twisted to suit your own advertising.  It isn't working.  Hard to believe when you make up statistics and jump to conclusions after tiny polls.

Consistant access?  What, they have access today but failed to pay their bill next month, so they don't have it?  (Hmm, should he pay the rent or the internet?)  They either have access or they don't.  EVERYONE HAS CONSISTANT ACCESS WHEN THE PUBLIC LIBRARY PROVIDES IT FREE OF CHARGE 7 DAYS A WEEK.  Whether they wish to avail themselves of this access or not is their decision.  Everyone can get a free library card and can have access.  What difference does it make if they look for rentals in their home, their friends or relative's home, their workplace, or the public library???

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

Registered:
Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #23 
I understand polling VERY well.  You don't.  A poll must be diverse, random in nature, and large enough in number to represent the audience.  Yours don't.  Without these elements, anyone can get ANY result they want to get from a poll.  I could poll a small audience in a tiny area, and get them all to agree the sky is green.  Given your logic, I could then apply this nationwide and declare that the sky is, in fact, green and that everyone else in the nation is wrong thinking it is blue.  That is exactly what you are doing.

You take a small audience in a limited area (KC), poll a tiny nonrandom fraction of those (1/5 of 1%), and then claim that everyone in the US but you is operating incorrectly.  Everyone else uses a tired, old system that doesn't work.  You have no actual idea if the other PMs all use the same system or not, or if they work.  Your only evidence is that they have vacancies.  But having asked only 3 companies, how would you know how many vacancies the rest have?  What system they use to fill those vacancies?  How do you define successful?  (And isn't it the owners' satisfaction that should determine success, not you?)  Your poll is worthless.  It is nonrandom, too small, not diverse enough in audience, and yet you try to apply it to the entire US!  Just to try to sell your product and company.

Funny too, you claim that everone else uses that tired, old system, then say that there is no industry standard.  Standard is to use 3 x the rent in income as a qualifier so that rent makes up no more than 30-35% of their income.  But you choose to use 40% as a qualifier?  Why?  So they can be over extended and in debt?  Seems the "system" has a better criteria.  I urge all LLs to use that as a standard.

Speaking of company, I don't see you or the company listed on the KS Board of Realtors site.  Who is the broker for your PM company?  I also don't see your credentials listed on your site.  Care to share?  I have a bachelor's degree and graduate work from a major state university, a valid Ohio Realtor's license,  yearly education classes and training, local head of the Property Management division for a national Real Estate company, and have been in PM for 19 years.  But I'm not selling any product or advertsing any company here because this site is for education, not self-promotion. 
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #24 
Okay yet another example that you truly do not understand polling, or even have a clue on how it works. So I will yet again, try and simplify it for you.

In 2008 there was around 123 million voters that turned out for the presidential election. So let's say of all the networks that were polling the results that night, let's say that they were able to achieve 500,000 participants in their exit polling, that turns out to be just over 4% of the voters. What is amazing though is every major network accurately called the winner of the presidential race. Wonder how they did that, with such a SMALL data sample. 

The reality here is you may think you know polling, but it's obvious to those of us that actually do understand polling, that you have no clue. 

The issue you have, is that everything is about YOU! You never take into account anyone others feelings when it comes to anything. You automatically assume that every tenant is bad, that there could not be a good tenant anywhere on the planet. You don't take your client's best interest at heart, since you have owned up to the absurd belief that vacancy trumps evictions in the dollar department. The reason you feel so free to proclaim that, is YOU HAVE NO MONEY IN THE GAME, therefore why should you care. As an active investor who owns over 7 figures in KC, I can tell you vacancy is the single most costly item in investing. What you don't realize obviously, is vacancy not only cost the owners lost revenue, but it increases the risks involved in a break in, which would cost the owner another 15-20K if they strip it clean. Do you ever consider that, when your defending your "vacancy is better than evictions"? 

You can tout your education all you want, though not sure why it's relevant, oh wait a minute yes I do. The time has arrived that you can no longer defend it, so now you have to qualify yourself. It's funny how all debates in up with someone doing this very thing. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
I understand polling VERY well.  You don't.  A poll must be diverse, random in nature, and large enough in number to represent the audience.  Yours don't.  Without these elements, anyone can get ANY result they want to get from a poll.  I could poll a small audience in a tiny area, and get them all to agree the sky is green.  Given your logic, I could then apply this nationwide and declare that the sky is, in fact, green and that everyone else in the nation is wrong thinking it is blue.  That is exactly what you are doing.

You take a small audience in a limited area (KC), poll a tiny nonrandom fraction of those (1/5 of 1%), and then claim that everyone in the US but you is operating incorrectly.  Everyone else uses a tired, old system that doesn't work.  You have no actual idea if the other PMs all use the same system or not, or if they work.  Your only evidence is that they have vacancies.  But having asked only 3 companies, how would you know how many vacancies the rest have?  What system they use to fill those vacancies?  How do you define successful?  (And isn't it the owners' satisfaction that should determine success, not you?)  Your poll is worthless.  It is nonrandom, too small, not diverse enough in audience, and yet you try to apply it to the entire US!  Just to try to sell your product and company.

Funny too, you claim that everone else uses that tired, old system, then say that there is no industry standard.  Standard is to use 3 x the rent in income as a qualifier so that rent makes up no more than 30-35% of their income.  But you choose to use 40% as a qualifier?  Why?  So they can be over extended and in debt?  Seems the "system" has a better criteria.  I urge all LLs to use that as a standard.

Speaking of company, I don't see you or the company listed on the KS Board of Realtors site.  Who is the broker for your PM company?  I also don't see your credentials listed on your site.  Care to share?  I have a bachelor's degree and graduate work from a major state university, a valid Ohio Realtor's license,  yearly education classes and training, local head of the Property Management division for a national Real Estate company, and have been in PM for 19 years.  But I'm not selling any product or advertsing any company here because this site is for education, not self-promotion. 

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

Registered:
Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #25 
Mary, thank you for your input.  You rent your properties using whatever means you deem effective, and offer good housing at or below market rates.  As such, you appear to be sucessful at this.  Good work!

KC, You really don't understand this?  A 4% sampling is 21 times greater than your sampling of only .19%.  If the networks were polling, they polled in a random pattern, polling people from a variety of neighborhoods, ethnic backgrounds, and economic levels.  They polled across the country, not just in one city or from only Company A, B, OR C!  They asked open ended questions, to obtain the widest variety of possible answers (not just YES or NO).  This type of polling - with random sampling of varied areas and by polling a statistically significant sample yeilds proper inferrential statistics and estimation. 

You misuse statistics by improper methods to yield results that are not nterpretted properly.  The sample you polled is not random and cannot be considered representative of the US, KS, or even KC population since you only polled from Companies A, B, & C.  The only population it can represent is clients of those 3 companies, not of all PM companies.  Also, the scope of your poll was too narrow to define the attitudes covering the US or of all PM companies in any area.  Read any statistics book.

What reason is education relevant?  Probably because the more I read, the less you appear to be a proper PM.  PM companies need to operate under a broker.  Who is your broker? 
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #26 
Since it's quite obvious that you cannot grasp the concept of polling, I will attempt to assist you, yet one more time. This comes directly from Gallup (maybe you have heard of them). You can google "the concept of polling by gallup", and you will discover a PDF written by Gallup. In that PDF, they disclose that when they are doing a NATIONAL poll, just over 300 million population, they are seeking 1,000 participants, all adults. In 2008, there was an estimated 207 million eligible voters. This calculates to .00000483 percent of the population. I would say that is a pretty tiny sampling, they then go onto tell you that an increase in participants will only likely confirm the already gathered statistics. This is called statistical probability. You see when you use logic and common sense, this is not that hard to understand. This is exactly what I have done, I sampled a relatively small group, but it would not matter if I polled every company and every employee, the results would of came out pretty much the same, +/- 4 or 5%. I am sure you have seen polling results displayed on TV, they do the exact same thing. The polling sample is conducted of a small group of people, depending on what they are looking for, and then use the laws of statistical probability to determine the results. Maybe it's you that should read the books on statistics, I understood it from day 1, it's you that are struggling with it. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
Mary, thank you for your input.  You rent your properties using whatever means you deem effective, and offer good housing at or below market rates.  As such, you appear to be sucessful at this.  Good work!

KC, You really don't understand this?  A 4% sampling is 21 times greater than your sampling of only .19%.  If the networks were polling, they polled in a random pattern, polling people from a variety of neighborhoods, ethnic backgrounds, and economic levels.  They polled across the country, not just in one city or from only Company A, B, OR C!  They asked open ended questions, to obtain the widest variety of possible answers (not just YES or NO).  This type of polling - with random sampling of varied areas and by polling a statistically significant sample yeilds proper inferrential statistics and estimation. 

You misuse statistics by improper methods to yield results that are not nterpretted properly.  The sample you polled is not random and cannot be considered representative of the US, KS, or even KC population since you only polled from Companies A, B, & C.  The only population it can represent is clients of those 3 companies, not of all PM companies.  Also, the scope of your poll was too narrow to define the attitudes covering the US or of all PM companies in any area.  Read any statistics book.

What reason is education relevant?  Probably because the more I read, the less you appear to be a proper PM.  PM companies need to operate under a broker.  Who is your broker? 

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

Registered:
Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #27 
Want to bet that Gallop, conducting a NATIONAL poll, will poll NATIONALLY, and not just 3 out of 100 companies in one city in one state?  And if they only asked for 1000 participants, there may be many fewer than the nation's population of qualified participants for their poll.  Maybe they wanted to poll 1000 families with more than a dozen children for some babyfood poll.  (You didn't say what the poll was for.)

Let me enlighten readers (from your own website):
Mr Patchin entered "real estate" through his puchase of some properties in 2004.  (With that definition, every LL is now in real estate.  Congratulations!)  He is a plumber by trade and a contractor.  There is no mention of a real estate license, nor any broker listed (which is required to do rental property managment).  He "wholesales" bank repos by fixing them up and finding buyers for them.  His own site says he interviewed 100 tenants which allowed him insights into "renovations of homes".  There is no mention on the site of the 9 step tenant screening, any tenant qualifications, etc.  Perhaps the Kansas board of Realtors can tell me more about his property management.
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #28 
LOL!!! What a coward, you can't even admit your wrong when your proven wrong. Now your arguing against Gallup. Did you even read the PDF? Their only qualification for their data, is you have to be an adult, and just so you know that means you have to be 18.  Ok, so you don't know what Gallup does, they have only been around for decades, and many many news agencies contract them to perform polls on a variety of topics, and according to Gallup themselves, they are ALWAYS looking for a data sample of 1000, regardless of topic. Again, this is referred to as statistical probability, and a larger sampling would only result in more pollsters saying the same thing. Do you need me to draw it on a white board, would that help you understand it? 

Since it's obvious that you can no longer defend your stance at your business, you now want to try and tear mine apart...Good Luck with that. It's not like I have not gone down this road before with people just like you. To cowardly to admit when they are wrong, how wonderfully childish of you. 

Yes, I still am a master licensed plumber, that has been involved in renovations of 10k-600K. See if you were an investor and someone who understood real estate from an investors point of view, you then would realize that I have more valuable experience than just a license. I know the workings of a house, inside and out. 

If you were capable of understanding what your reading, it clearly states that I perform exit polling of all tenants, this MEANS, it's an ongoing data sample, which now has reached over 200 tenants, you see since I don't have a lot of vacancy, it's tough for me to show a lot of properties. I bet I could do a lot better, with your massive vacancies.  

And here is another news flash for you, since you can't grasp what proprietary means, let me see if I can help you with that as well. If you go to Coca-Cola's site, there is no mention of the recipe, why do you suppose that is? I guess you think because you are you, then nothing is off limits, you should get what you want, simply because you ask for it.  Do you honestly think the world revolves around you? 

Not that it will matter, but I will save you some time, you are 100% correct I am not a licensed realtor or broker, but here is where you are wrong YET AGAIN. In Kansas, there is NO requirement for a property manager to be licensed at anything, again your self belief that you actually have knowledge, was wrong, that's becoming a theme with you. 

As I have told everyone of those typical other PM's, that have tried the same approach with this topic, when they realized they couldn't debate it with me, you can do whatever you want, but I will tell you this, cross that line of legality, and you will see just how much I do know. 

Okay, so now you want to change this to companies, Are you sure you want to go down this road, with me?  So what is the name of your company, and let's have some fun. Are you secure enough to debate companies with me? Let's see if you reveal your company. 

So you have this belief that  license is the answer to all the problems, a license does not mean a damn thing, it does not test for qualifications or knowledge, it only tests one's ability to read a book. And in the case of RE agent, it's a one week shotgun course on RE law, and you think me being a plumber does not qualify me for RE, I did that for 16 years, you took a 1 week class.  I personally think you should write a letter of thanks to your state RE board, because in your case, if they would of tested for any one of those other topics you would have failed miserably. 

Answer me this oh wise one, if a RE license means you know what your doing, why do you have to keep taking ongoing education courses, does that not indicate, YOU DO NOT KNOW EVERYTHING YOU NEED TO KNOW? Wasn't that hard for me to figure out!


I have a free tip for you, maybe if you spent a 1/3 of the time you devote to this board, on actually managing your properties, you would have far fewer vacancies, or am I wrong on this one. Do your clients want you to spend all your time on this board, because vacancy is the answer? If I am wrong, then I apologize!

Since you have now tried to move off topic, twice, I do realize what that means. I want to thank you for validating my points on this topic. I will say it usually takes a little longer for someone to go off topic, and essentially admit defeat. Anyone that has debated anything in life, realizes the first to lose their cool or go off topic, means defeat. As they can no longer stay on topic, their last chance at trying to prove their right is to turn into a personal battle, this just further goes to show how immature you are. 



Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
Want to bet that Gallop, conducting a NATIONAL poll, will poll NATIONALLY, and not just 3 out of 100 companies in one city in one state?  And if they only asked for 1000 participants, there may be many fewer than the nation's population of qualified participants for their poll.  Maybe they wanted to poll 1000 families with more than a dozen children for some babyfood poll.  (You didn't say what the poll was for.)

Let me enlighten readers (from your own website):
Mr Patchin entered "real estate" through his puchase of some properties in 2004.  (With that definition, every LL is now in real estate.  Congratulations!)  He is a plumber by trade and a contractor.  There is no mention of a real estate license, nor any broker listed (which is required to do rental property managment).  He "wholesales" bank repos by fixing them up and finding buyers for them.  His own site says he interviewed 100 tenants which allowed him insights into "renovations of homes".  There is no mention on the site of the 9 step tenant screening, any tenant qualifications, etc.  Perhaps the Kansas board of Realtors can tell me more about his property management.

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
OHlandlord

Registered:
Posts: 3,730
Reply with quote  #29 
"In Kansas, there is NO requirement for a property manager to be licensed at anything..."  Again, not quite true.

Must Kansas property management companies have a real estate broker's license?

Yes, for commercial properties if the property manager is going to lease, rent, list, procure prospects or negotiate, assist, or offer to perform any of those acts, her or she will need a broker's license. A salesperson working under a broker may engage in such activities. According to the Kansas Department of Real Estate a broker's license is not required to manage property if the property at issue is a residential property...

So basically any idiot can manage residential property there without a license.  Shame your site actually lists COMMERCIAL property managment too - which does require a brokers license, which you now admit you don't have.  Hmmm...  Your site says, "Whether your interest is Commercial Apartments or Single Family Homes, rest assured, the exit polling answers all the questions. ...'  

The site also listed 8 vacancies in February.  His site says he maintains a 1:75 ratio (meaning one person manages 75 units.)  8 out of 75 units is a 10.6% vacancy rate.

A RE license in KS may be a one week course.  Not in OH.  Education classes, passing state and national exams to show you know what you learned, mentoring by a RE broker, followed by continuing education classes every year to keep you current on laws, trends...  Then more classes to obtain a Property Management designation, along with other RE designations.  But you are a "professional" property manager that is neither licensed nor believes in continuing education?!!  I have no doubt you know plumbing.  But actual property management?  Doubt it.
GreaterKCHomes

Registered:
Posts: 23
Reply with quote  #30 
Well of course it does, my polling does not discriminate on those tenants that choose an apartment over a house, this actually happens in all markets. Maybe if you knew your market, you would realize that. Oh wait, you do, that's why your operating at double digit vacancies, because you know it so well. Good to see that continuing education courses are doing some good.

You would be correct on your percentage, however since I have said more than once that I am managing over 100 properties, yet again there is a problem with your math...BIG SURPRISE!!   And as far as my site is concerned, I will be the 1st to admit, I am the worlds worst in updating my site, but then again it would be a daily routine for me, and since I don't really have time to spend hours on discussion boards, or updating a website, as I prefer to spend the time a little more productive, I don't know, like actually working for my clients. Wish we all saw it that way.

Still waiting on the name of your company? Or did you simply dismiss that like you have this topic? I mean you don't have anything to hide, do you? Like your true vacancy rate, which is probably in the 15-20% range, which is more common. Maybe your hiding the number of evictions, you say 1, I say I have a bridge I will sell you. What's the name of your company? 

You say idiot, I say what is the difference between a non-licensed idiot and a licensed one, I would offer this up. Maybe the non-licensed idiot is actually smarter than you, as they have not wasted money on a license and CE, and still have no clue on what they are doing. But then again, your the one with all the degrees, now aren't you!

So I take it we are no longer discussing your incompetence on polling, another big shocker. So how many time are you going to allow me to show you in your true light? I'm game, just let me know when your ready to change the topic, for the 4th time! 

You know for someone who is so educated, you are completely ignorant to very common things. So your saying you would much rather "be educated" from a book published probably before this RE debacle,meaning it has no relevant factor in today's market or from a publisher in New York, what could they possibly know about the rental market in Ohio, Kansas, Hawaii or anywhere else,versus the only company I know of that conducts exit polling of the actual market. THE TENANTS! You don't see this as a more accurate portrayal of the market. WOW! So to admit, yes I would much rather learn the market from those individuals in the market, versus any state that has no working knowledge on Real Estate investing or managing, they only have interest in DOLLARS! I'm guilty!

People like you are a dime a dozen, you are so in love with yourself, you fail to realize just how little actual market knowledge you have. I conduct webinars monthly, to an average of 300 people on this very topic. I just had a webinar last week, listened to for the full hour by 373 people, I received almost 50 emails of thanks and praise, because I am telling it like it is. From that webinar, I am actually mentoring a PM on the data set, because they are professional enough to realize that a change is needed, because of this current market. And by the way, I am doing it at no charge for this particular PM, as it is one of my clients PM in another city, he listened in, and agreed that the way he was doing it could use some updating. In other words, a complete opposite of you, your in denial even when your proven wrong, that's professional isn't it!! 

This current market has never been seen in the US, and will never be seen again. PM's are faced with tenants that have been evicted because of foreclosure, prior to the law being passed. How do you deal with those tenants? People like you would automatically reject them, even though it was not their fault. But your to narrow minded to see past that, that's why you and so many other PM's are struggling with this market. 

And yes, I have placed 3 tenants in this exact scenario, they were all evicted because of a failed portfolio. I required them to provide rent receipts, which they had no problem providing. As it turns out, they are A+ renters, never late, never excuses. Since I make the effort to consider ALL consequences, I don't have a problem with renting to these types of tenants, because sometimes bad things happen to good people. 

Quote:
Originally Posted by OHlandlord
"In Kansas, there is NO requirement for a property manager to be licensed at anything..."  Again, not quite true.

Must Kansas property management companies have a real estate broker's license?

Yes, for commercial properties if the property manager is going to lease, rent, list, procure prospects or negotiate, assist, or offer to perform any of those acts, her or she will need a broker's license. A salesperson working under a broker may engage in such activities. According to the Kansas Department of Real Estate a broker's license is not required to manage property if the property at issue is a residential property...

So basically any idiot can manage residential property there without a license.  Shame your site actually lists COMMERCIAL property managment too - which does require a brokers license, which you now admit you don't have.  Hmmm...  Your site says, "Whether your interest is Commercial Apartments or Single Family Homes, rest assured, the exit polling answers all the questions. ...'  

The site also listed 8 vacancies in February.  His site says he maintains a 1:75 ratio (meaning one person manages 75 units.)  8 out of 75 units is a 10.6% vacancy rate.

A RE license in KS may be a one week course.  Not in OH.  Education classes, passing state and national exams to show you know what you learned, mentoring by a RE broker, followed by continuing education classes every year to keep you current on laws, trends...  Then more classes to obtain a Property Management designation, along with other RE designations.  But you are a "professional" property manager that is neither licensed nor believes in continuing education?!!  I have no doubt you know plumbing.  But actual property management?  Doubt it.

__________________
The Logical Turn Key Provider of outstanding Real Estate Deals, in Kansas City! The only Turn Key Provider, that offer exit polling of all tenants, to truly understand the rental market.
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