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Forums > LANDLORD RIGHTS & THE LAW > obligation to control noise?
 
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gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    11/14/08 at 08:56 PMReply with quote#1

I have a tenant who is constantly threatening to sue me if I don't control the noises made by my other tenants above him. Here is a letter that I am considering sending to him that also explains the situation:

When I gave you (the problem tenant) the new lease to sign, you didn’t get back to me for a few days. Then I contacted you to tell you that I could not guarantee that I would be able to control the behavior of the upstairs tenants in general and sounds they make over your apartment during lengthy eviction proceedings in particular. All I was offering was the apartment without that guarantee. In its stead, I offered to allow you to move out of the apartment if it became uninhabitably noisy without having to pay the balance on the rent owed from the day you moved out until the end of the original lease. 

 

Shortly after the lease agreement was signed, you decided that the apartment was in fact uninhabitably noisy but that you were going to continue living there without paying rent anyway since you felt “you shouldn’t have to be the one forced to leave.”

 

Whether the upstairs should be evicted or not is ultimately up to a judge. Whether you chose to move out or not is up to you. In no case do the outcomes of those decisions imply that I am obligated to provide you with something that we agreed I might not be able to provide.

 

My question is: Given the nature of the agreement described above, would a judge be more likely to find that am I or that am I not in fact obligated to control the noise of my tenants above him?

Any previous experiences with such situations or opinions on the matter (as landlords or even as jurors...) would be greatly appreciated.

OHlandlord

Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,702

    11/15/08 at 03:15 PMReply with quote#2

Do not send this letter to your tenant.  That letter sounds as if you have taken away one of his rights.  You have an obligation to ensure the peaceful enjoyment of his unit.  This means you do have to control noise over a normal volume or that which occurs late at night.  You can't control all noise above him.  That is a drawback of having someone live over you.  But there shouldn't be loud music or noise late at night, or screaming matches through the day.  Just normal everyday noise.

Now, you can't personally go duct tape your tenants' mouths to get them to be quiet of course.  But you have taken steps to ensure his peaceful enjoyment by initiating eviction against these people.  I assume you have also sent them prior notices telling them to abate the noise.  That is all you can do.

Make the offer once again to allow the tenant out of any further obligation of his lease, IF he is paid in full up to the date of his move out.  Otherwose you will not allow him out of his obligations.  Allow him only 24 hours to accept this offer.  Then issue him a Pay or Quit notice.  Having noise above you is not a reason to stop paying rent.  He is rent withholding without cause and without following the correct procedure (to deposit the rent with the clerk of court on the day it is due).  If he fails to pay up within that notice period, file eviction on him too.  He cannot withhold rent for noise, only for uninhabitability issues that violate your obligations under the LL-Tenant law of your state.  Noise does not necessarily make a unit uninhabitable, and you shouldn't say that in your letter.  Stick to the offer and nothing more.
gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    11/15/08 at 10:33 PMReply with quote#3

Thanks for the advice. I'll see if I can evict him then.
rkkeller

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 685

    11/17/08 at 09:40 AMReply with quote#4

You don't need to evict everyone. If one or the other goes the problem ends.

IMO, the people upstairs with the cats are the problem, see your other thread.
gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    11/17/08 at 11:53 AMReply with quote#5

The people in the upstairs are letting the cats play over my downstairs tenant's apartment late at night in violation of their lease agreement.

On the other hand, the guy in the downstairs is a peeping-tom.



MOON

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 506

    11/17/08 at 11:06 PMReply with quote#6

This sounds like a mottley crew. I have a set of tenants I refer to as the adams family !! It is hard to control a cats nightly activities - is the upstairs carpeted ? give the upstairs tenants the option of replacing the padding for extra thick padding . maybe they can make sure the cats are kept in a room at night that is not directly over the d/s tenants bedroom. Have these cats been neutered ? cats will settle down a bit after being neutered. Tell the upstairs tenants to see what their vet can recommend but it is for them to resolve & absorb the costs of any remedies.Is the downstairs tenant the peeper ? can't be because you would not look to accomodate that one.  If the people upstairs really want to keep their cats they should be willing to do something . Do you have any downstair apartments coming available tell the upstairs tenants to consider moving downstairs ? You may want to inspect the upstairs apartment if these cats are really this active better check the condition of your apartment. You also want to get a head count on the cats to make sure they do not have more than allowed.I let a tenant keep 3 cats providing they were neutered the next thing you know 3 turned into 7...

MOON

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 506

    11/17/08 at 11:30 PMReply with quote#7

I just read some of your other post. This guy is the peeping tom ??? Why go out of your way to accomodate him ?? Do you want him to be comfortable & stay ?? And if he is a peeper - he is obviously DISTURBED & I would not trust anything he complains about !! Maybe the cats are also telling him to peek in everyone's windows.Does anyone else complain about the upstairs tenants ?? I would be monitoring this guy & speak to the police yourself about him. Do you have camera's outside the apartments ? perhaps you should consider that & concentrate on getting rid of him. I would take cats over a peeping tom..  

gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    11/18/08 at 09:50 AMReply with quote#8

Getting security cameras for the outside to catch this guy in the act - what a great idea!

Of the two sets of tenants, I am leaning towards getting rid of the peeper because he really is disturbed; verbally abusive, every request accompanied by a threat of a lawsuit, has lied to me about the behavior of my upstairs tenants in an effort to get me to accuse them of things they didn't do  - in order to drive a wedge beween me and them & throw negotiations into disarray, etc, etc. It seems like he has histrionic &/or borderline personality disorder with antisocial traits - an absolute nightmare.

Fortunately, I did not let him drive this wedge and it looks like I will be able to install a floating floor above his apartment. (I've also recently discovered the tactic of just giving 24 hours notice to my tenants that I will be doing a soundproofing project and ask them to let me know if they want me to come by at another time. This way, if nobody is responding to my emails, I can still get the project done and the problem solved.)

MOON

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 506

    11/18/08 at 03:30 PMReply with quote#9

I got the idea about security camera's from RK & OHIO - it did not apply to my situation but sounds like it would for yours. but they did tell me you need to post a sign somewhere indicating that the property has such camera's. I hope you are documenting all the things going on with this tenant. are the other tenants able to identify him as the peeper? I still am not sure why you are doing all of what you are doing based on this guys complaints. verbal abuse? what kind of threats ? does he scare you ? talk to the police he sounds creepy.see if you can sign a complaint for verbal abuse & anything else you consider a threat.

gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    11/18/08 at 09:27 PMReply with quote#10

I didn't know that I could file a complaint for verbal abuse - that's great to know.

Mostly its just the constant threats of lawsuits over and over again that are starting to wear me down. The repetitive nature of it sure feels like harassment. The strangest thing is that whenever I schedule a repair to solve the problem, he tells me he's going to sue me anyway - almost as if he is trying to provoke me into not doing the repair so that he can have grounds to sue me. I could easily see this guy provoking police officers into perpetrating police brutality, suing their department for the same, and winning the case! He is that bad. Ugh.

MOON

Registered: 09/16/08
Posts: 506

    11/19/08 at 02:12 AMReply with quote#11

How long ago was he peeping in windows ? can the other tenants identify him? Is he still doing this ? Please stop catering to his every complaint since you have already said he lies alot & is disturbed, you need to start keeping track of everything he does & it sounds like he knows how to push your buttons & has fun doing so. how much longer for his lease to expire? you need to ask the police about the verbal abuse - I was just trying to see if he has threatened you or anyone else personally in anyway. The next time he makes a stupid complaint & threatens to take you to court let him. you seem to have done alot to keep him from taking you to court.Do not be so intimidated by his complaints.some complaints are justified but he just wants to see how high he can make you jump.You can tell the difference between a reasonable complaint & a rediculous complaint.  

OHlandlord

Registered: 01/20/07
Posts: 2,702

    11/19/08 at 08:48 AMReply with quote#12

Some suggestions:

-Cameras are a great idea to stop peeping toms.  None of them wants to be caught in the act.  Just make sure they are in common areas, not aimed into anyone's windows, and a sign clearly states that they are in use.

-Slow down his complaints by failing to take his calls.  Screen them with the machine and let the machine get and record his calls.  Send notice that all repair requests and complaints need to be made in writing and make up forms for these and send them to tenant.  State in the notice that only emergency (fire, flood, electrical dangers, structural) will be answered immediately.  All others will be prioritized and handled in order of importance within a reasonable period.  If he leaves complaints or repair requests on the machine, put the form in an envelope and attach it to his door with the note saying you need those in writing.  This will slow his calls down since he will just get a form on his door to fill out. 

Make the form complete (if you know what I mean) so that it takes a little time to fill out.  (ie- tenant's name, full address, unit number, date, what needs repaired, why it needs fixed, what does the tenant want done to it, what happened to cause the needed repair, when was it first noticed, and so on.) 

On the bottom, add 2 sections.  The first is a section where you mark when you received it, when you checked out the problem to see what needs done if anything, a few lines to record the results of your inspection, a place to checkmark if it is an [ ]emergency, a [ ]needed repair, or [ ]Denied: cosmetic/unnecessary, and a line for the expected date of repairs to be made.)  After you fill out this section, copy the form and send it back to the tenant so they can see you inspected and what you determined/timeline for repairs.  Remember your state repair guidelines.  (Find them if you don't know them.)  Some states give 24-72 hours for emergency repairs to be done, and up to 30 days for needed repairs.  Cosmetic issues can be denied! 

On the second section, have a line for the date repairs were completed, what was done and by whom, and a signature line for the tenant with a clause above stating the listed repairs were completed on this date.  Then file the form away in your file to show you did what was requested.

-Take a witness with you whenever you go to this nut's unit.  You want someone who would testify to any threats he makes against you.  Report any threat to the police immediately.  Show him you aren't afraid to call the cops.  Get your tenants to call the cops whenever he starts peeping.

-Ignore threats of suits.  Some tenants threaten all the time.  He will continue to do so if he sees you are scared.  When he says that, just tell him that is his right.  If he continues with the treat, let him know that you can have no further contact with him, and he will have to contact your attorney since a lawsuit has been threatened.  You can be sure he will threaten another suit when it comes time for his deposit refund.  Ignore them.  If he really files suit, see your attorney.
49meno51

Registered: 06/30/10
Posts: 3

    08/04/10 at 09:47 PMReply with quote#13

Thanks to California landlord/tenant laws, I'm stuck with the tenants from hell. They answered the complaint like skilled pros who have done this before. The laws are so 1-sided, in favor of deadbeat tenants. Legal Aid has advised them to fabricate that there are other occupants living in the unit that did not sign the lease. This is totally untrue, but it allows them to legally delay the case. Their lease term has ended, they haven't payed rent in over a month, and they walk around like they have all the time in the world and are making no efforts to pack or move. How can we as landlords eliminate such unfair advantages that the laws give them?     

rkkeller

Registered: 04/07/08
Posts: 685

    08/05/10 at 07:44 AMReply with quote#14

Sorry to hear that but I bet NJ laws are 10x more tenant friendly unless you live in the unit.  That is about the only way its close to fair.

The best thing I can say is screen, screen, screen after they move and check everything you can for the next tenants.  Still no guarantee as my problem tenants seem perfect at first then after about 6 months things start going bad.
gaphile

Registered: 11/14/08
Posts: 15

    08/05/10 at 09:54 AMReply with quote#15

Screening is key.

When things go poorly, I usually visualize doing everything a judge would like to have me do ideally. This includes sending follow up emails on every interaction with the tenants to the tenants.

With enough time (and bad antics on their part), they will usually end up hanging themselves legally, realize it, and lose the will to go to court. E.g. - I might coyly reply, "Oh no! There are other people staying there? What can I do to help you get them out? Please send me their contact info, give me a call the next time they are in the unit so that I can speak with them directly, etc." When that "evidence" seems to be taking week after week to materialize... they will know that their unverifiable claim has damaged their credibility (or at least a judge should be able to pick up on this point...).

This kind of misery is indeed miserable... At least I'm not a cop in a scary district though; imagine what it must be like to know that if you're split second judgment call is incorrect one way, you could be killed - and if it's incorrect the other, you could end up in jail... Talk about impossible choices - ugh!
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